The sister and cousin of the mother in the California 'House of Horrors' case has visited her in prison - and they say she is "living in a la-la land".
Tricia Andreassen and Elizabeth Flores told Good Morning Britain they had visited Louise and David Turpin, who are in custody facing a raft of child abuse and torture charges.
They were arrested in January when Police raided their home in Perris, finding their 13 children living in abhorrent conditions.
Ms Andreassen said the couple's alleged crimes made her "want to vomit".
"We had to see them face to face ... is one a psychopath? I don't even know," she said.
Ms Flores said Louise is "living in a la-la land - [thinking] that she didn't do nothing wrong and that she's going to get out and we're going to play board games again and just kind of like that attitude".
She described David as "broken".
"He knew that he had messed up and he was broken - that's what we gathered."
The Turpins are accused of serious abuse including repeatedly beating their children, denying them regular showers and shackling them to furniture.
Some were also showing signs of starvation when they were found.