Dame Tariana Turia reveals 'I've taken two of my own grandchildren', slams Oranga Tamariki policy

July 8, 2019

The former Māori Party co-leader tells Q+A one of the most painful things you can put a mother through is to take her child from her.

Former Māori Party co-leader Dame Tariana Turia has slammed Oranga Tamariki's removal of newborn babies from their mothers as disgraceful, saying she knows the pain it causes because she has taken two of her own grandchildren from their mother.

The Ministry for Children's baby uplift policies have been in the media spotlight recently, and its chief executive last week said it can't change the past but can look at what it needs to change.

Dame Tariana was asked in an interview for tonight's Q+A programme what she thinks about babies being removed from a mother when they're only hours or days old.

"I think it's disgraceful, because it basically disconnects that child from their mother. It disconnects the mother from their child," Dame Tariana replied. 

"The child will never ever gain that sense of who they are. Now I've taken two of my own grandchildren. I do know what it's like to take a child from its mother. And believe you me, it is one of the most painful things you can put a mother through is to take her child from her," she said. 

Many Oranga Tamariki social workers are themselves Māori and say while they don't want to be removing young children or babies from families, they're doing so because they believe it's in the child's best interest.

"Well it's one thing to remove a child from their family in that child's best interest. But where that child is placed has to be in that child's best interest too," Dame Tariana said. 

"I'm not saying they shouldn't intervene. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying where that child is placed is critical," she said.

Dame Tariana said Oranga Tamariki "do not go the length and breadth of looking for the whānau in the way that they should. I'm not talking about any Māori person taking that child - I've done that myself in my lifetime. No, children need to be with whakapapa". 

Dame Tariana was asked - given her own experience in her whānau, and the children she has whangai'd (fostered) - what does it do to her in 2019 to see images and hear stories of babies being removed by Oranga Tamariki?

"I feel outraged because there is no need for it. There is absolutely no need to mistrust us as a race of people in our own land," she replied. 

She said she was not going to look for excuses for why Māori are over represented in groups that have children removed by Oranga Tamariki.

"I think there are lots of things that have happened to us as a people. And those things have created a sense of dysfunction within our families and in our communities. 

"We've lost out land, we've lost our economic base, we've lost our ability to understand even who we are. Most of us don't have te reo anymore. I think all of those have impacted really hugely on us."

Dame Tariana said the Minister for Children "does know the right thing to do, but of course she can't interfere with the operations of Oranga Tamariki".

"I think that Oranga Tamariki know the right thing to do. They have some very good people in there who do know the right thing to do. I think they get under pressure. And this whole thing, it's about money, it's about placement, it's about kids on the books, all of those things. Not good. 

"The only pressure there should be is to find the right place, the right whānau. And the right whānau is their whakapapa whānau." 

* Q+A is on TVNZ1 on Mondays at 9.30pm, and the episode is then available on TVNZ OnDemand and as a podcast in all the usual places.

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